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NYFP Posted: 12-13-2005 6:18 AM


Many EMR companies have their own Standard Legal Contracts and Licensing agreements, but how willing are they to include some safeguards at your request, so that you may feel more comfortable, protecting your investment?

What information do you think is important for you to "include" in your EMR Contract?

What information do you think should be "excluded" from your EMR Contract?

I would like to compile a list of items that you feel; should and should not be included in your EMR Contract.

I'll start it off:

1) Transfer Rights; you should be allowed to transfer the EMR License to your "Successor," without having to purchase a New License. (A minimal Transfer Fee would be reasonable.)





 

Rich Family Practice New York:
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Contracts,

Oh boy.

The things I would encourage anyone to include in their contracts:

1. I know this is blanket, and I'll be more specific later, but ANYTHING YOU WERE PROMISED DURING DEMOS THAT YOU FEEL ARE VITAL TO USABILITY, BUT WERE NOT SHOWN SPECIFICALLY, ie "That's in our new version that comes out in 5 days, or that's a special module that we will load for you."

2. Any interfaces, etc that you want done.


I'm out of time. More later?

Nick

p.s. I suck~
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Originally posted by agalvan

Future Increases of Annual Support Fee should be spelled out in writing.


 

Rich Family Practice New York:
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quote:
Originally posted by NYFP



I would like to compile a list of items that you feel; should and should not be included in your EMR Contract.




Seems reasonable to me... Obviously anyone who has read recent posts knows what I am about to say. Why not negotiate for the GPL? Of course, you might find you vendor quite unwilling to consider this option. But instead of rediscussing this issue, I will point out things that you can do with the GPL, to illustrate why you should negotiate for it.

There are four general freedoms that the GPL provides.

* The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
* The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
* The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
* The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.

So the list of things you might want to negotiate for...

1. The freedom to signifigantly change how your practice runs without permission from the vendor. This could include the number of users (freedom 0)
2. the place the software was used, (freedom 0)
3. whether the providers all had to belong to the same practice to use the same software. (Can you add billing entities without the vendors permission) (freedom 0)
4. Change the type of practice (freedom 0)
5. Change the software by modifying it yourself, or by hiring outside programmers (freedom 1)
6. Ability to transfer your EHR to the person who purchases your practice (freedom 2)
7. Ability to give your software to your friend to help them run their practice (freedom 2)
8. Ability to open a new location, including new software without permission from the vendor (freedom 2)
9. Ability to use the software to improve your patient care, and then offer the same benifit to your peers (freedom 3)
10. Ability to hire who you want to support your software, including firing your vendor without changing your software.(freedom 1,3)
11. Ability to have full access to the source code of the software, should the vendor go out of business, change ownership, or drastically raise prices (freedom 1,3)

It would be simpler to demand the GPL. However, IF you decided to negoitiate a license, you might see what happens if you ask for these.

Regards,
Fred Trotter
http://www.gplmedicine.org http://www.mirrormed.org
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Ability to GIVE the Software to a friend to help run their practice??

HUH???? Might be nice to ask for but I doubt you would ever get any vendor to agree to that...otherwise call "everyone" your friend and give them each a free copy. Not very sustainable, and certainly not legal.....with EMR or any software other than shareware.
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As EMRs are failing (going bankrupt) they will ask for "One Time Charges" to meet "Requirements" (ie. say HIPPA ups documentation requirements). Of course this is unfair to EMR users and is an obvious "captive audience" revenue generating mechanism after the initial sale.

Be Wary.

email: 

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Most EMRs charge for training time. I have heard many horror stories where a trainer came down to train, then spent most of the time ironing out "bugs" in the program. When more training hours were needed, the client was forced to pay for additional hours. I think installation and training fees need to be clearly spelled out, not lumped together.
Alison Galvan, M.D.
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If your EMR goes Bankrupt, some EMR Companies will put the Code in escrow, so that you can get a copy of the Code, to help simplify the transfer of your data to the new EMR.


If you have an ASP Contract, it should also stipulate that you are the Owner of the Data.


Rich Family Practice New York:
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Originally posted by Contrarian:

..Though I have been fairly treated by all of the vendors that I have experienced, there are 3 things that I would warn every potential purchaser.


1) Get a limit written in your contract as to the maximum amount that license, support and upgrade fees can increase per year. I experienced similar increases, though my vendor was very gracious in correcting this situation.

2) Never purchase an EMR or PMS that will no longer function if you do not pay your licenses/support fee. It is okay to have a system that will not allow you to document future visits, but past visits should remain accessible forever. You should know this ahead of time. I personally would not purchase any system that has a lockout feature.

3) Have a clause that states that all features discussed or shown in the demonstration including templates are currently available for your practice. If not, you are entitled to a refund. It is okay for a vendor to discuss features that are soon to be available, but a purchase should never ever be predicated on receiving anything that is not currently developed.

I feel that marketing forces rightly or wrongly cause vendors to release products that are incomplete or exaggerated in functionality.



Rich Family Practice New York:
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Default and remedies:

- if our interface is down for more than XX amount of hours we have a right to revoke the maintanance payment for that month
- similar formulation for ASP downtime

I feel that defaults and remedies should be equalized as much as possible and include financial penalties. Money...that's something that vendors can understand.
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Money is just one small factor. I for one know that eMedRec will not take your support issues any higher or lower based on Financial Incentive.

I am even more sure that this is of no issue with any large company. After all this more of a support issue, marketing and sales are a different group.

Regards,
Brendon
Brendon Holt President http://www.holtsystems.com eMedRec Medical Records Made Friendly "If it wasn't for that last minute I would never get anything done."
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quote:
Originally posted by Brendon

Money is just one small factor. I for one know that eMedRec will not take your support issues any higher or lower based on Financial Incentive.

I am even more sure that this is of no issue with any large company. After all this more of a support issue, marketing and sales are a different group.

Regards,
Brendon



Congratulations! Maybe that's why nobody that I work with ever heard of emedrec Wink [;)]
Are you suggesting that clinics should not financially penalize vendors for not delivering adequate support?
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I am sorry to hear you have not been lucky enough to hear of eMedRec. We have been in the industry since 1992 and are just now spending more on marketing and sales to expand outside of the Florida area. I am still not sure this is wise given the fact that 50,000 physicians practice medicine, and most are in our backyard here in Southeast and Southwest Florida.

I am not sugesting I am simply saying in no uncertain terms that Money in most software manufacture shops is not going to up your support calls. I have been in the Software Manufacturing business for almost 20 years and this is the case often, unless said company needs the money, in which case I would be very concerned since probably they would be out of business.

The only time money is a big factor is during the initial sales cycle. Even then a truly mature company will not allow this to effect the process. I doubt any of us vendors are going to care if some customer holds out on $50,000 or less in support money until issue XYZ is solved. With this in mind I am sure you are talking more in the $5,000 to $20,000 range. Nearly all of the vendors pay this and more a week just in development and support costs, so obviously we could care less about this little bit of money.

Really in this case your only remedy is to hope the company has a reputable support department and that this reputation is on the line to meet your needs.

I will reverse your question.

Do you really beleive that holding back on some maintenance fees when you are just one of many customers would actually get your problems resolved?

Is it not better to work within the process to get your issues resolved?

The biggist other threat is legal for a full refund, but this can be very messy for both parties.

Sorry for the brutal truth, hence the reason for my thread on Consumer Rights EMR/Vendor relations

Regards,
Brendon
Brendon Holt President http://www.holtsystems.com eMedRec Medical Records Made Friendly "If it wasn't for that last minute I would never get anything done."
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Brendon,
How much is your software for a single provider, and would you be willing to drop that price by $20,000 if you couldn't care less about that small amount of money?
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quote:
Originally posted by azalea_runner

Brendon,
How much is your software for a single provider, and would you be willing to drop that price by $20,000 if you couldn't care less about that small amount of money?



I am not so sure how the price of the software relates to the thread, but I will answer the question.

Our software is only $8500 for what we call a starter system. This includes all of our server technology and enterprise content management, and 5 Concurrent Users of the product. Some offices can use this with two providers and others with just one, dependent on staff needs.

Any vendor here can tell you $20,000 is not a lot of money and goes quick. My point here was that none of us can prioritize based on such a small amount of money. I will also repeat, after nearly 20 years in the business, $20,000 is not a lot of money. How can anybody think it is and seriously be considering development.

My point was specific and well made, even a large practice with all of it's maintenance is not going to be able to use this as leverage when services are not to there desire, they will need to use more conventional means.
Brendon Holt President http://www.holtsystems.com eMedRec Medical Records Made Friendly "If it wasn't for that last minute I would never get anything done."
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